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Re: [IRCA] KAZ versus Pennant/Flag

@ Mark P. I modelled the typical 20 x 140 Mark D special to have one look
being 25 x 56 and the other 20 x 70 ft. It seemed OK until I realized I
wasn't able to get good F/B on the low end. You could likely get by with a
small difference.

73 KAZ

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 4:34 PM Mark Durenberger <Mark4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> Okay; thanks Kaz, I get it.  I'm now going to my happy place to think
> about a world without copper :-))
>
>
> Cheers!
>
> Mark Durenberger
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: IRCA <irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Neil Kazaross
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 3:07 PM
> To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] KAZ versus Pennant/Flag
>
> Keeping the same aspect ratio would mean also making that delta longer
> which would mean it is even bigger, thereby further widening the beam per
> work previously done here. 73 KAZ
>
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 3:02 PM Mark Durenberger <Mark4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> > Okay; maybe that's all we need to ask then.  No; I wasn't presented
> > with any more than the usual goofball things as we all see from time to
> time.
> > My curiosity was based on how some transmitting systems work.
> >
> >
> >
> > Howsomeever...what if you kept the same aspect ratio on the delta on
> > which you're increasing the apex?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark Durenberger
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: IRCA <irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Neil Kazaross
> > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 1:33 PM
> > To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [IRCA] KAZ versus Pennant/Flag
> >
> >
> >
> > OK Mark, let me understand what you're asking. You want me to adjust
> > the height of the support mast closest to the nulling resistance? This
> > will result in loops that aren't the same size, and based upon
> > previous work, while good nulls can still be had, the effect of having
> > one of the two loops in series with a smaller one, will be a somewhat
> wider beamwidth.
> >
> >
> >
> > In your experiments, you may have found some magic very deep nulls at
> > some frequencies, but I'll bet that at some others the nulls were
> > worse. I'll also bet that DXers in other locations might not get the
> > same results you got.
> >
> >
> >
> > In practice while nulls deeper than 30 dB are nice, and you hope that
> > a well built DKAZ away from reflecting structures would have quite a
> > few in the daytime, it isn't very likely that someone else at a
> > different QTH could get the exact results you got.
> >
> >
> >
> > 73 KAZ
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 11:23 AM Mark Durenberger < <mailto:
> > Mark4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Mark4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > KAZ:  Included in my voluminous measurements this summer was a set
> > > of
> >
> > > data taken with various height-extensions of the null-side support
> >
> > > pole.  I got this idea from the way some AM Directional-Antenna
> >
> > > systems are designed with un-equal tower heights.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Can you run a few EZNECs assuming a front pole height of 22 feet
> > > with
> >
> > > a few different âbackâ-pole heights?  We may discover that
> >
> > > identical-apex is the best solution.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > On the other handâ
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Cheers!
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Mark Durenberger
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > > From: IRCA < <mailto:irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Neil Kazaross
> >
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 2:03 PM
> >
> > > To:  <mailto:irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] KAZ versus Pennant/Flag
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > The Double Loop genre of antennas models to have better back end
> >
> > > nulling performance at relevant higher angles (ie rather short skip)
> >
> > > than do the single loops. This is because a double loop is nearly
> >
> > > electrically the same as an end fire array of two single loops.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > 73 KAZ
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 1:27 PM Mark Pettifor < <mailto:
> >
> > >  <mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  <mailto:
> > mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Well here's something that's been on my mind lately, regarding
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > differences between superloops and the DKAZ:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > It seems to be my experience so far that at night, the back and
> > > > side
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > nulling characteristics of these antennas changes, due to sky wave
> vs..
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > ground wave, yes? Which one is more affected by those changes?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Mark
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Goshen, IN
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > On 2018-10-24 1:42 pm, Chuck Hutton wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > Mark -
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > No arrogance detected here.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > Now back to the issue of DKAZ low band performance...â
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > Chuck
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > ________________________________
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > From: IRCA < < <mailto:irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> mailto:
> > irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > >  <mailto:irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > on behalf of Mark
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > Pettifor < < <mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 8:58 AM
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] KAZ versus Pennant/Flag
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > Apologies, Chuck, and to the rest here. In looking back at my
> >
> > > > > post,
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > I realize I could have said things a lot less arrogantly and
> >
> > > put-offish.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > That's how I sounded to myself anyway after re-reading what I
> posted.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > 73,
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > Mark
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > On 2018-10-24 1:57 am, Chuck Hutton wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >> Mark -
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >> I suppose we all agree that the DKAZ has nailed some great
> catches..
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >> My goal was to point out a shortcoming, not to say that it
> > > > >> can't
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >> hear DX a la Colombia / Venezuela / Nicaragua.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >> Chuck
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >> ________________________________
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > >
> >
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> >
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