Re: [IRCA] DKAZ questions

[Russ Edmunds <wb2bjh@xxxxxxxxx>]

The two FM's really shouldn't impact your AM DX, so your problems seem to
begin and end with WCMR and the radiated noise.

Russ Edmunds
15 mi NW Phila
Grid FN20id
<wb2bjh@xxxxxxxxx>

AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (4) barefoot w/whip
FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder;
Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 4);
modified Sony ICF2010's (3) w/APS9B @ 15';
modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip


On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Mark Pettifor <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Lots of useful info - thanks to all! I think it would also be useful to
> tell you about my RF situation here in the Land of Goshen to get the best
> advice.
>
> 1. I live less than two miles from 3 transmitters:
>
> -- WCMR 1270 AM. They are 5kW day, 1kW night. Bearing: NNW
> -- WFRN 104.7 FM. 50kW. Same site as WCMR.
> -- WSSM 97.7 FM. 6kW. Bearing: NNE
>
> I usually have to switch on attenuation for the ELAD via software (and for
> any other radio, really) when using my SE-NW longwire, which is about 150
> feet long. The rest are OK without attenuation. That's a lot of RF flying
> about though. Growing up, we used to hear WCMR in all kinds of odd
> situations - sometimes just an improperly-grounded audio circuit would pick
> them up. I swear I heard their audio once coming from the heater vents from
> the furnace...
>
> 2. There's a local RF noise source from somewhere - I think it's the
> neighbor across the road, using some kind of battery charger on the RV
> parked in their drive. We've talked briefly before, but I really need to
> take the time to get with him and identify the problem, and offer to help
> replace equipment or whatever it takes. It's pretty bad. Sometimes it even
> covers up the Detroit Tigers game on Kalamazoo's WKZO on 590, which upsets
> both myself and my brother, who lives next door. :^)
>
> Whatever the interference is, gets sent out the power lines from the
> neighbor's house, to the power pole. That section of power line is above
> ground, so it radiates the noise locally to whatever will receive it. What
> receives it best is MY power line coming to the house from the same pole,
> which is also above ground. So I've got "dirty" power coming into the
> house, as well as power lines transmitting it to the surrounding area. To
> get away from all that noise, I have to have the antenna about 100 feet
> away from the house, on the opposite side from the road. Anything closer
> gets saturated with noise.
>
> Best solution is to identify the noise and eliminate it. The neighbors are
> nice people - I think I can get him to help narrow it down. Perhaps another
> solution would be to see if the power company will bury the power lines for
> both of us. It would involve going under the road though - the pole is on
> my side of the road.
>
> As I get older, I'm finding myself more willing to spend the money for
> "plug n play" solutions, but still, it's fun tinkering and rolling your
> own. Just a matter of time for me mostly right now - there are some other
> big time-consuming projects I need to address.
>
> Thanks for all the feedback! (If this were an audio forum, that would've
> been a pun...)
>
> Mark
>
> On 2016-10-07 11:25 am, Neil Kazaross wrote:
>
>> Unless one has some parts and wants to tinker, by far the easiest solution
>> is go with a FLG100 from Wellbrook and a Vactrol from Colin. Both plug and
>> play with cables and BNC connectors.
>>
>> 73 KAZ
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Nick Hall-Patch <nhp@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Mark.   I do think that your points about twisted pair are correct,
>>> and it would be intriguing to see if using twisted pair with the FLG100
>>> would make any further difference to the noise pickup.   My suspicion is
>>> not, but it's only a suspicion.    One of the things one seems to be
>>> paying
>>> for with the FLG100, as with the ALA100, is eliminating the concerns
>>> about
>>> noise being conveyed on the coax shield, which is what a balanced pair
>>> will
>>> do for you as well, at lower cost.
>>>
>>> The difference for me has been the "out of the box" nature of the FLG100
>>> solution.  There are costs and costs, and time has been a big one of them
>>> in my years as a DXer.    And once the FLG100 is up, there's been no
>>> tinkering with connections.
>>>
>>> One thing that has made twisted pair not "out of the box" for me has been
>>> the lack of remotely weatherproof connectors at a price that  is not at
>>> least a down payment on a FLG100 (and yes, the BNC on the coax is not
>>> totally weatherproof, but a few inches of rubber tape is pretty close).
>>> If you have something that works well with CAT5 (banana plugs don't
>>> count;
>>> I've been troubleshooting with you, remember), then I am all ears.    I
>>> think we discussed feed-through glands at one time.  Is that what you
>>> have
>>> in mind?
>>>
>>> best wishes,
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 11:58 07-10-16, you wrote:
>>>
>>> I do love the way the varied interests in this hobby are propagated
>>>> through this club from member to member and I'm grateful for the
>>>> knowledge
>>>> and experience that's so freely shared.
>>>>
>>>> One baby elephant in the room is Mark's antenna "ambience."  If his QTH
>>>> there in the Land O' Goshen is in a field of electrical interference
>>>> (and
>>>> perhaps significant local RF?), the noise gathered by the lead-in may
>>>> be an
>>>> issue best resolved not by common-mode choking but by "balancing" the
>>>> feed-lines.
>>>>
>>>> I've bored folks to death by espousing the balanced twisted-pair
>>>> approach, in the form of Category cable (Cat 5, Cat5e etc) with an
>>>> impedance around 110 ohms.  IMHO such a BALANCED transmission line
>>>> pretty
>>>> much eliminates stray pickup without the need for common-mode choking.
>>>> Cat-5 sells for around $45/1000 feet...although if the budget allows,
>>>> I'd
>>>> go for STRANDED Cat-5.
>>>>
>>>> As I type this I'm watching the Perseus on a D-Kaz facing mostly west
>>>> and
>>>> watching Seattle rolling in, here in North-Central Minnesota.  Using a
>>>> 9:1
>>>> transformer and Cat-5 with a DXE RPA-1 in the shack and watching a noise
>>>> floor of -111 dbm in 5 kHz, after the amplifier's 15 db gain.
>>>>
>>>> An absolute YES to the Vactrol approach for the null component.  The
>>>> design for that circuit somewhat obviates the potential for stray
>>>> common-mode pickup, so coax may work FB, but again...twisted-pair is so
>>>> easy to implement.
>>>>
>>>> As to mounting the RF amplifier at the antenna:  I've tried the FLG and
>>>> the DXE, planting them both at the antenna and in the shack.  Like Don
>>>> Moman, I can't really find any significant improvement...though in
>>>> theory
>>>> antenna-mounting of the amplifier is the better approach; weathering
>>>> issues
>>>> notwithstanding.  (You would however, need a balancing transformer after
>>>> the amplifier if you fed twisted-pair.)
>>>>
>>>> A winterized installation at my site would include twisted-pair
>>>> lead-ins,
>>>> a 9:1 transformer and a Vactrol control, mounted in weatherproof boxes
>>>> and
>>>> the amplifier in the nice warm shack.  Amazon fans have found all sizes
>>>> of
>>>> weatherproof boxes and wire feed-throughs:
>>>>
>>>> At Amazon's greedy query, type in: "Cable Connect Waterproof Plastic
>>>> Case
>>>> Junction Box" and "Plastic Waterproof Cable Connectors"
>>>>
>>>> Decent transformers (if you don't have strong RF nearby)
>>>> http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/T9-1.pdf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now for the famous YMMV  <g>   Have fun Mark; continue to share your
>>>> experiences!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mark Durenberger, CPBE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Mark Pettifor
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the advice guys - much appreciated!
>>>>
>>>> I should also publicly thank Tim Tromp for getting me interested in the
>>>> DKAZ to begin with.
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>> On 2016-10-06 10:02 pm, Nick Hall-Patch wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Agreed.    They do cost a fair amount (mind you the exchange rate with
>>>>> the pound isn't bad right now), but are solidly built and work very
>>>>> well.
>>>>> Money well spent.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> At 22:17 06-10-16, you wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I very strongly recommend the Wellbrook FLG100LN, They go right at the
>>>>>> antenna and replace your xfmr. Now what is picked up by the antenna is
>>>>>> amped 22 dB whereas what is picked up by the coax is not amped at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have two of these and they've survived IL weather for over 3 years.
>>>>>> 73
>>>>>> KAZ Barrington IL
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Mark Pettifor <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > For those of you who have DKAZ antennas, which preamp do you use? Do
>>>>>> > you
>>>>>> > find it makes much difference whether you put it at the antenna or
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> > the
>>>>>> > shack?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I need to "finish" construction on mine. Right now, I have two
>>>>>> 470-ohm
>>>>>> > resistors alligator-clipped together for the null end, and a
>>>>>> hand-wound
>>>>>> > transformer (my first ever) on a core made of unknown material, to
>>>>>> go
>>>>>> > from
>>>>>> > 940 to 50 into a 50-ohm feedline.... RG-8X, 150 feet. That is also
>>>>>> > alligator-clipped together. It was for testing, ya know?  :^)
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > It's been pretty good as is, but I want to get it ready to survive
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> > winter.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > BTW, it's amazing the amount of noise just a short length of RG-8X
>>>>>> 100%
>>>>>> > shielded coax will pick up. I have it mostly on the ground, but
>>>>>> have a
>>>>>> > small part of the run overhead for now (30 feet?) so I don't mow
>>>>>> over
>>>>>> > it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> > Thanks!
>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Mark Pettifor
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> > Near Goshen, INdx.com
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>> Nick Hall-Patch
>>> Victoria, BC
>>> Canada
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