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Re: [IRCA] KAZ versus Pennant/Flag

A slightly different question crossed my mind the same time Mark asked his:
What if you changed the apex on the one end and kept the area of the loop the same? Raise the apex and shorten the bottom part of the delta, or lower the apex and lengthen the bottom part of the delta, so that the length of wire used (and therefore the area of the loop) is the same? 

Mark Pettifor

On 2018-10-26 4:07 pm, Neil Kazaross wrote:

Keeping the same aspect ratio would mean also making that delta longer
which would mean it is even bigger, thereby further widening the beam per 
work previously done here. 73 KAZ
On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 3:02 PM Mark Durenberger <Mark4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
wrote:
Okay; maybe that's all we need to ask then. No; I wasn't presented with any more than the usual goofball things as we all see from time to time. 
My curiosity was based on how some transmitting systems work.
Howsomeever...what if you kept the same aspect ratio on the delta on which 
you're increasing the apex?





Cheers!



Mark Durenberger





-----Original Message-----
From: IRCA <irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Neil Kazaross
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 1:33 PM
To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [IRCA] KAZ versus Pennant/Flag
OK Mark, let me understand what you're asking. You want me to adjust the height of the support mast closest to the nulling resistance? This will result in loops that aren't the same size, and based upon previous work, 
while good nulls can still be had, the effect of having one of the two
loops in series with a smaller one, will be a somewhat wider beamwidth.
In your experiments, you may have found some magic very deep nulls at some frequencies, but I'll bet that at some others the nulls were worse. I'll also bet that DXers in other locations might not get the same results you 
got.
In practice while nulls deeper than 30 dB are nice, and you hope that a well built DKAZ away from reflecting structures would have quite a few in 
the daytime, it isn't very likely that someone else at a different QTH
could get the exact results you got.



73 KAZ



On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 11:23 AM Mark Durenberger < <mailto:
Mark4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Mark4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:



> KAZ:  Included in my voluminous measurements this summer was a set of

> data taken with various height-extensions of the null-side support

> pole.  I got this idea from the way some AM Directional-Antenna

> systems are designed with un-equal tower heights.

>

>

>

> Can you run a few EZNECs assuming a front pole height of 22 feet with

> a few different âbackâ-pole heights?  We may discover that

> identical-apex is the best solution.

>

>

>

> On the other handâ

>

>

>

>

>

> Cheers!

>

>

>

> Mark Durenberger

>

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: IRCA < <mailto:irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Neil Kazaross

> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 2:03 PM

> To:  <mailto:irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> Subject: Re: [IRCA] KAZ versus Pennant/Flag

>

>

>

> The Double Loop genre of antennas models to have better back end

> nulling performance at relevant higher angles (ie rather short skip)

> than do the single loops. This is because a double loop is nearly

> electrically the same as an end fire array of two single loops.

>

>

>

> 73 KAZ

>

>

>

> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 1:27 PM Mark Pettifor < <mailto:

>  <mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  <mailto:
mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>

>

>

> > Well here's something that's been on my mind lately, regarding

>

> > differences between superloops and the DKAZ:

>

> >

>

> > It seems to be my experience so far that at night, the back and side

>

> > nulling characteristics of these antennas changes, due to sky wave vs..

>

> > ground wave, yes? Which one is more affected by those changes?

>

> >

>

> > Mark

>

> > Goshen, IN

>

> >

>

> > On 2018-10-24 1:42 pm, Chuck Hutton wrote:

>

> > > Mark -

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > No arrogance detected here.

>

> > >

>

> > > Now back to the issue of DKAZ low band performance...â

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Chuck

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > ________________________________

>

> > > From: IRCA < < <mailto:irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> mailto:
irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

>  <mailto:irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
on behalf of Mark

>

> > > Pettifor < < <mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

>

> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 8:58 AM

>

> > > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America

>

> > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] KAZ versus Pennant/Flag

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Apologies, Chuck, and to the rest here. In looking back at my

> > > post,

>

> > > I realize I could have said things a lot less arrogantly and

> put-offish.

>

> > > That's how I sounded to myself anyway after re-reading what I posted.

>

> > >

>

> > > 73,

>

> > > Mark

>

> > >

>

> > > On 2018-10-24 1:57 am, Chuck Hutton wrote:

>

> > >> Mark -

>

> > >>

>

> > >>

>

> > >> I suppose we all agree that the DKAZ has nailed some great catches..

>

> > >>

>

> > >> My goal was to point out a shortcoming, not to say that it can't

>

> > >> hear DX a la Colombia / Venezuela / Nicaragua.

>

> > >>

>

> > >>

>

> > >> Chuck

>

> > >>

>

> > >>

>

> > >> ________________________________

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