Re: [IRCA] Cape Lookout Oregon non-DX Overview - Oct. 31-Nov. 2

[Chuck Hutton <charlesh3@xxxxxxx>]

And more to the point, I said:


- you can phase 2 antennas an inch apart by having your phasing unit or transformer insert a 180 degree phase shift. The problem is that the signals on the antennae are 99.99% the same, so you'll get rid of 99.99% of the desired signal.

- if instead of 1 inch separation you use separation of at least .1 wavelength, you can then have a rearside null without significant loss of desired (forward) signal.


So no, you can't put two antennas on top of your VW Beetle or Yugo and have it be useful.


Chuck


________________________________
From: IRCA <irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Nick Hall-Patch <nhp@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 9:11 PM
To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
Subject: Re: [IRCA] Cape Lookout Oregon non-DX Overview - Oct. 31-Nov. 2

Hi Guy,

I've done similar work here with more closely spaced ALA100s and the
Wellbrook phasing unit.   Same results, good, sometimes spectacular
nulls, and a marked decline in signal strength from the desired
direction as well.  Usually defeats the purpose when you are looking
for overseas weak signals in the boresight.

Chuck Hutton pointed out to me that the effect can be modeled, and
Chavdar Levkov also has modeled / experimented with phasing closely
spaced antennas:

http://www.lz1aq.signacor.com/docs/phased-array/2-ele_phased_array11.pdf
Receiving Phased Array with Small Electric or Magnetic ...<http://www.lz1aq.signacor.com/docs/phased-array/2-ele_phased_array11.pdf>
www.lz1aq.signacor.com
Receiving Phased Array with Small Electric or Magnetic Active Wideband Elements © LZ1AQ - 2 - Fig.1 Basic 2-element array Two cases will be analyzed: the first where ...




http://active-antenna.eu/tech-docs/radiation_patterns.pdf
Radiation Patterns prn - Active Antenna Amplifier<http://active-antenna.eu/tech-docs/radiation_patterns.pdf>
active-antenna.eu
Radiation Patterns of 2-el. Active Receiving Phased Array for Loop and Dipole Mode v.1.1 Aug 2014 © LZ1AQ These are the expected radiation patterns using active ...





best wishes,

Nick




At 06:32 12-11-16, Guy Atkins wrote:
>Hi Nick,
>
>The conclusions were inconclusive, LOL!
>
>The bulk of the so-called experiments involved observing phasing results
>with close spacing (approx. 70 feet between antennas). Andrew Ikin of
>Wellbrook has said repeatedly to me and Dave that his phaser design
>requires a minimum of 40 meters spacing to work effectively. However, Dave
>had the Quantum Phaser along, and he knew we could get *some* results at
>closer spacing but with a limited bandwidth. We did not have a Wellbrook
>phasing unit with us this trip.
>
>Dave found that he could indeed get decent nulls (loop vs loop, or loop vs
>vertical) at 70 feet, but unfortunately the desired DX signal strength
>dropped along with the nulled station! That's the main takeaway that I
>remember from our work, which granted wasn't very scientific. Too bad you
>weren't along, Nick, as I know you'd keep us in line and help us reduce
>variables and banish wishful thinking :^)
>
>73,
>
>Guy
>
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Nicholas Hall-Patch <nhp@xxxxxxxx>
> > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America <
> > irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Cc:
> > Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2016 12:44:49 +0000
> > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Cape Lookout Oregon non-DX Overview - Oct. 31-Nov. 2
> > And what did you conclude from the experiments, Guy?    I always find that
> > my experiments raise more questions than they answer, especially if they
> > involve phasing.
> >
> > best wishes,
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
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Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada

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