Re: [IRCA] Beverage versus DKAZ (was: TP for 20 October from Masset)

[neilkaz <neilkaz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Actually a Bev has best gain straight up from directions perpendicular (+/- 90 deg) to the main beam. 

I'd not expect that a good comparison could be made comparing an antenna at 300 deg vs one at 220 deg. That being said, a 700 ft BOG is a very good antenna and I'd expect its more narrow beam to outperform a single DKAZ for it's intended direction.

Walt do you have room to array two DKAZ? ie consider 100 meters spacing side by side aimed 220 for a more narrow beam and to better reduce stateside and Asian QRM on DU channels.

73 KAZ

-----Original Message-----
>From: Chuck Hutton <charlesh3@xxxxxxx>
>Sent: Oct 21, 2015 11:35 AM
>To: "irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [IRCA] Beverage versus DKAZ (was: TP for 20 October from Masset)
>
>I think Mark has it 100% right. The Beverage actually has best gain straight up while the DKAZ is down maybe 7-10 dB at overhead angles.
>Chuck 
>
>To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>From: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>CC: markwa1ion@xxxxxxx
>Subject: [IRCA] Beverage versus DKAZ (was: TP for 20 October from Masset)
>Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 16:04:20 +0000
>
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>--Forwarded Message Attachment--
>Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 12:04:16 -0400
>From: markwa1ion@xxxxxxx
>To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Beverage versus DKAZ (was: TP for 20 October from Masset)
>
> 
>Could the anomalous results be from the fact that sometimes at the sunrise or sunset transition you actually have higher angle pick-up for long haul because of a tilted ionospheric layer above the receiving site (enabling chordal / ducted mode propagation reducing the number of ground reflections)?
> 
> 
>http://www.radtelnetwork.com.au/propagation/HFpropagation_files/img013.gif
> 
> 
>An antenna that is efficient for high angles may briefly outperform otherwise superior long haul DX (i.e. low angle pick-up) antennas.
> 
> 
>There used to be a station near Madrid, Spain on 1359 kHz that ran big power into a Near Vertical Incidence Skywave antenna (horizontal dipole?) to push out high angle skip to penetrate isolated valley areas between mountains.  Here in Massachusetts during mid-evening the station was no stronger than other high band Spain stations in the 5 to 10 kW class.  But as dawn reached Madrid, the signal came up and got crazy-loud, often the strongest station from across the "pond" at the time.
> 
> 
>160-m hams have reported that they have brief periods when a low dipole or horizontal loop below quarter-wave height ("cloud burner") contacts DX that their big verticals or high-altitude beams or dipoles miss.  95% of the time it's the other way around of course.
> 
> 
>Mark Connelly, WA1ION
>South Yarmouth, MA
> 
> 
><<
>From: Walter Salmaniw <canswl@xxxxxxxxx>
> 
> 
>700'
> 
> 
>On Tuesday, 20 October 2015, Chuck Hutton
><charlesh3@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Like Neil, I am curious about the length of the
>BOG.And when you say you
>> noted the same with the Wellbrook, do you mean it
>lost out to a BOG or to a
>> DKAZ?
>> Chuck
>>
>> > Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015
>01:16:18 +0000
>> > From: canswl@xxxxxxxxx <javascript:;>
>> > To:
>neilkaz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <javascript:;>; irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <javascript:;>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [IRCA] TP for 20 October from Masset
>> >
>> > Point is taken,
>Neil. The Bog is about 300 deg while the DKAZ is aimed
>> > about 220 deg. So
>not exactly a perfect A B comparison.  I noted the same
>> > years back using
>the twin Wellbrook arrays.  Walt
>> >
>> > On Tuesday, 20 October 2015, neilkaz
><neilkaz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Walt " DKAZ worked
>very well before LSR but really dies off after
>> leaving
>> > > the
>> > > 
>Bog"
>> > >
>> > > A big difference would surprise me since DKAZ is also good
>for low
>> arrival
>> > > angles. What exact direction is the BOG and how
>long?
>> > > What exact direction is the DKAZ?
>> > >
>> > > 73 and thx ..
>KAZ
>>>
> 		 	   		  
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