Re: [IRCA] New C.Crane "Skywave" Vs. Tecsun PL-380-- Daytime DX Shootout

[Walter Salmaniw <canswl@xxxxxxxxx>]

I guess it works for you, Chuck, but to me I prefer the higher frequencies
even with the mild hiss.  For whatever reason, I find it less fatiguing and
more intelligible as well.  73,  Walt

On Monday, December 29, 2014, Chuck Hutton <charlesh3@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> Gary -
> Intelligibility is almost completely determined by frequencies below 3000
> Hertz, hence the 3400 Hertz upper limit in the phone system. The amplitude
> responses of the two receivers is pretty identical below 3000 Hertz. The
> noise at 3000 Hertz and above is just a bad distraction in the Skywave.
> Chuck
>
> > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 23:26:22 +0000
> > From: d1028gary@xxxxxxxxxxx <javascript:;>
> > To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <javascript:;>
> > Subject: Re: [IRCA] New C.Crane "Skywave" Vs. Tecsun PL-380-- Daytime DX
> Shootout
> >
> > <<<   I don't think so. The audio response for the two is very similar
> (identical?) from 100 - 2500 Hertz. It's just below 3000 that a big
> difference can begin to be noted. There's about a 15 dB difference from
> that point upward, and it'd sue to "wideband" white noise.
> > Take a look at a frequency plot and you'll easily see what I mean.   >>>
> > Chuck
> >
> > Chuck, I have no doubt that you are correct that the barefoot
> "Skywave's" audio response has a huge dose of white noise starting just
> below 3000 hertz, and going upward from there.
> >
> > My point is that for transoceanic DXing, almost nobody is going to spend
> the $$ to go to the ocean coast and then try chasing DX with a barefoot
> Skywave (or any other barefoot pocket radio, for that matter). When an FSL
> antenna inductively couples to one of these pocket radios and provides a
> huge gain boost, it typically chops off the higher audio frequencies in the
> DX station's audio-- which should make the Skywave's high frequency audio
> bias pretty much irrelevant in DX audio MP3's. As for how this presumption
> will play out in actual DXing on the ocean side cliffs, only time will
> tell. But I do know that the combination of the PL-380's 1 kHz DSP
> filtering and the FSL's inductive coupling boost has usually resulted in a
> serious loss of high frequency audio in DX station MP3's, making it seem
> desirable to try correcting the issue.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "Chuck Hutton" <charlesh3@xxxxxxx <javascript:;>>
> > To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <javascript:;>
> > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 11:02:55 AM
> > Subject: Re: [IRCA] New C.Crane "Skywave" Vs. Tecsun PL-380-- Daytime DX
> Shootout
> >
> > Gary -
> > I don't think so. The audio response for the two is very similar
> (identical?) from 100 - 2500 Hertz. It's just below 3000 that a big
> difference can begin to be noted. There's about a 15 dB difference from
> that point upward, and it'd sue to "wideband" white noise.
> > Take a look at a frequency plot and you'll easily see what I mean.
> > Chuck
> >
> > > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 08:54:12 +0000
> > > From: d1028gary@xxxxxxxxxxx <javascript:;>
> > > To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <javascript:;>
> > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] New C.Crane "Skywave" Vs. Tecsun PL-380-- Daytime
> DX Shootout
> > >
> > > Chuck,
> > >
> > > Given the likelihood that these new "Skywave" portables will be used
> with extremely high-Q FSL antennas during actual transoceanic DXing, the
> high-treble audio of the "Skywave" may help to compensate a little for the
> tendency of the FSL's to chop off the higher audio frequencies when they
> zero in on DX with their razor-sharp tuning system. Up until now the
> PL-380's 1 kHz DSP filtering and the FSL's razor sharp tuning system have
> been kind of a double whammy on DX stations' higher audio frequencies,
> resulting in somewhat "muddy" sounding audio during typical MP3's.
> Previously, the only way to correct this issue was to switch to 2 kHz DSP
> filtering on the PL-380, but that usually results in unacceptable splatter
> from domestic stations. Time will tell if the "Skywave's" high-treble audio
> provides a little more balance in MP3's of DX stations.
> > >
> > > Gary
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: "Chuck Hutton" <charlesh3@xxxxxxx <javascript:;>>
> > > To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <javascript:;>
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2014 10:42:15 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] New C.Crane "Skywave" Vs. Tecsun PL-380-- Daytime
> DX Shootout
> > >
> > > I was somewhat bothered by a lot of hiss in the Skywave audio. It's
> easily visible in a spectrum plot.
> > > To a lesser degree, the 380 audio had too much low frequency rumble.
> > > Doing a good lowpass and highpass filtering on both, I was left with
> audios that sounded identical from the two receivers.
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > > > From: canswl@xxxxxxxxx <javascript:;>
> > > > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 06:04:16 +0000
> > > > To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <javascript:;>
> > > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] New C.Crane "Skywave" Vs. Tecsun PL-380--
> Daytime DX        Shootout
> > > >
> > > > Impressive results, Gary.  I was very impressed with the 550 clip.
> Wow!
> > > > As for the others, the C Crane receiver was so much less fatiguing to
> > > > listen to.  Great audio, for sure!  Thanks for doing the side by side
> > > > comparisons!   73,...Walt Salmaniw, Victoria, BC
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 5:40 AM, <d1028gary@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello All,
> > > > >
> > > > > With clear weather and lots of open space in our back yard, it was
> time
> > > > > for a full Shootout between the Si4734-chip-powered Tecsun PL-380
> and the
> > > > > new Si4736-chip-powered C.Crane Skywave portable. Both stock
> models were
> > > > > checked out for normal operation before the contest, with new
> batteries and
> > > > > an equal chance to receive six fringe MW stations just after local
> noon..
> > > > >
> > > > > The new Skywave is significantly smaller than the Tecsun PL-380
> (see photo
> > > > > at
> > > > >
> http://www.mediafire.com/view/8o5mdtt1bc1rfik/CCraneSkywaveDisassembly-04_(Large).jpg
> > > > > ), and at $89.95 (before shipping) costs about twice as much. The
> Tecsun
> > > > > PL-380 stock model was chosen for this Shootout because it has
> become the
> > > > > favorite of Ultralight radio Transoceanic DXers, with a generous
> range of
> > > > > functions combined with "toned down" soft mute. Its stock
> loopstick places
> > > > > it near the top of the ULR class in sensitivity, and with DSP
> filtering
> > > > > down to the 1 kHz level it provides fairly representative
> performance of
> > > > > all the Tecsun Si4734 DSP chip Ultralights.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rather than tell you immediately how the Shootout went, I will let
> you
> > > > > form your own opinion by posting six MP3's of the relative
> reception by the
> > > > > PL-380 Vs. the Skywave in receiving the daytime DX fringe
> stations. In each
> > > > > MP3 both the PL-380 and the Skywave were set on the 1 KHz DSP
> setting, and
> > > > > both were pointed in the same direction. In each MP3 the PL-380
> receives
> > > > > the fringe station for the first 20 seconds, and the Skywave
> receives the
> > > > > same fringe station for the final 20 seconds.
> > > > >
> > > > > 550  KARI   Blaine, WA   (5 kW at 127 miles)
> > > > >
> http://www.mediafire.com/listen/dd8dok6ujeh50cz/550-KARI-PL380vsSkywave.MP3
> > > > >
> > > > > 690  CBU   Vancouver, BC   (50 kW at 148 miles)
> > > > >
> http://www.mediafire.com/listen/hj3khn0zjep3pxc/690-CBU-PL380vsSkywave.MP3
> > > > >
> > > > > 750  KXTG   Portland, OR   (50 kW at 117 miles)
> > > > >
> http://www.mediafire.com/listen/06uc2a15yas4y57/750-KXTG-PL380vsSkywave.MP3
> > > > >
> > > > > 1070  CFAX   Victoria, BC   (10 kW at 100 miles)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> http://www.mediafire.com/listen/44vpx852aa7pwn4/1070-CFAX-PL380vsSkywave.MP3
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1420  KITI/ KUJ   Centralia and Walla Walla, WA (5 kW at 46 miles
> and 202
> > > > > miles)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> http://www.mediafire.com/listen/b2apvjdi5uwhksw/1420-KITI-KUJ-PL380vsSkywave.MP3
> > > > >
> > > > > 1470  KELA   Centralia, WA  (5 kW at 46 miles)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> http://www.mediafire.com/listen/glppgdt26jzcnlc/1470-KELA-PL380vsSkywave.MP3
> > > > >
> > > > > Comments:  The Si4734 DSP chip in all of the Tecsun Ultralights
> tends to
> > > > > clip off the higher audio frequencies in the 1 kHz DSP setting,
> leaving the
> > > > > audio with somewhat of a "muddy" sound. Obviously, the Si4736 chip
> in the
> > > > > Skywave not only solves this issue, but solves the heterodyne issue
> > > > > (audible in the 1420 kHz MP3) as well. As for why the Skywave
> seems to have
> > > > > a slight sensitivity edge over the PL-380 (except on 550, where it
> smokes
> > > > > the PL-380), it could either be the result of a superior
> loopstick, or
> > > > > superior sensitivity of the Si4736 chip. Further testing should
> reveal the
> > > > > cause.
> > > > >
> > > > > Verdict:  The Si4736 DSP chip in the Skywave is a major
> improvement over
> > > > > the Si4734 chip in the Tecsun DSP Ultralights. Although there may
> be some
> > > > > jokes about the Skywave's cost being "sky high," the radio seems
> to be
> > > > > everything claimed by C.Crane, at least in its MW performance.
> This model
> > > > > should see a lot of action among Transoceanic MW DXers, where its
> superior
> > > > > audio and heterodyne-free reception should make a significant
> difference in
> > > > > split-frequency results.
> > > > >
> > > > > 73 and Good DX,
> > > > > Gary DeBock (in Puyallup, WA, USA
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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