Re: [IRCA] Oklahoma TP DX 8/29/17

[d1028gary@xxxxxxxxxxx]

<<< I believe that you have noted that the FSL tends to favor the lower 
MW band, where its Q is highest. Perhaps there might be a more even 
match at higher frequencies when using a brute force broadband antenna. 

It would be an interesting comparison. >> 

Very true, Nick! 

Actually FSL's and broadband loops have been used side-by-side at the Rockwork 4 cliff for several years now, and those who have participated in these DXpeditions can confirm the tradeoff you mention above. However in these cases the broadband loops are usually quite a bit larger than the ALA1530, and the FSL's are also quite a bit larger than the 8" size. 

In the Rockwork 4 DXpeditions both types of antennas do tend to carve out their own DXing niche, and actually do work quite well to complement each other on the low and high band. 

Gary 


----- Original Message -----

From: "Nick Hall-Patch" <nhp@xxxxxxxx> 
To: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America" <irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 10:31:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [IRCA] Oklahoma TP DX 8/29/17 

A good point Gary. 

I believe that you have noted that the FSL tends to favor the lower 
MW band, where its Q is highest. Perhaps there might be a more even 
match at higher frequencies when using a brute force broadband antenna. 

It would be an interesting comparison. 

best wishes, 

Nick 

At 01:21 30-08-17, d1028gary@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote: 
>Hi Nick, 
> 
><<< Might I disagree Gary? >>> 
> 
>No disagreement, necessary, Nick! 
> 
>I think both of us agree that the ALA1530 would boost the CC 
>Skywave's MW reception beyond that of the midget stock loopstick. 
>Almost any type of external antenna will do that, as long as it is 
>designed for MW frequencies. In Richard's situation, however, he 
>already has a very effective 8" FSL antenna, which has received DU 
>audio from several different Australian stations in Oklahoma. The 
>high performance of that antenna is directly related to its razor 
>sharp, single-optimized-frequency advantage. Directly connecting a 
>small, mismatched broadband antenna in its place is unlikely to 
>accomplish anything significant. Otherwise, we would already have 
>had multiple reports of DU's being received far inland on the 
>ALA1530. In rare situations that might be possible with a $1,000+ 
>table receiver with a 50 ohm antenna input, but not with a 
>mismatched Ultralight radio. 
> 
>Gary 
> 
> 
>----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>From: "Nick Hall-Patch" <nhp@xxxxxxxx> 
>To: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America" 
><irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
>Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 5:55:26 PM 
>Subject: Re: [IRCA] Oklahoma TP DX 8/29/17 
> 
>Might I disagree Gary? 
> 
>I think what the ALA1530 could do is boost sensitivity across the 
>band for the CC Skywave. The old method of coupling a random wire 
>into a portable radio seems to work at least as well for a 50 ohm 
>output from the Wellbrook amplifer. A turn or two of wire around 
>the body of the radio could hot things up nicely when the wire is 
>connected between the center pin and ground of the ALA1530's RF 
>output connector, normally meant to couple into a receiver input connector. 
> 
>Elegance might involve a loop of wire around the internal loop's 
>ferrite rod, with a small input connector adapted from the ALA1530's output? 
> 
>At any rate, I have neither a CC Skywave nor an ALA1530, so I 
>haven't tried it exactly. But the concept seemed to work haywired 
>with a PL-380 that was modified already with an external 7.5" ferrite 
>rod antenna being fed by a Wellbrook ALA100 amplifier hooked to a 4' 
>square copper pipe antenna . Wenatchee on 900kHz became readable 
>here on a late summer afternoon, with little sign on it before. 
> 
>Also tried the ALA-100 with the old SRF-39 Ultralight...KONA-610 
>leapt out whereas just traces before. 
> 
>Give it a try Richard. It won't be "Ultralight" anymore, but it 
>might bring up those trans-Pacifics, plus you can aim the loop in the 
>right direction or use it to null interference. 
> 
>best wishes, 
> 
>Nick 
> 
>At 19:16 29-08-17, d1028gary@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote: 
> 
> ><<< Question: Is it feasible to couple a Wellbrook ALA1530LNP aerial 
> >with a C Crane Skywave receiver without serious modification? I'd 
> >like try using them together. >>> 
> > 
> >The short answer is that this wouldn't work very well, Richard. 
> > 
> >The Wellbrook ALA1530LNP is a relatively small broadband loop 
> >designed for a 50 ohm impedance-input table receiver, while since 
> >the CC Skywave is a pocket radio designed for portability, it was 
> >never designed to be directly connected to any external antenna (50 
> >ohm input, or otherwise). Installing such a 50 ohm antenna connector 
> >on the CC Skywave would be a nightmare, and even if you do this, 
> >since the ALA1530LNP is a broadband loop designed to receive all MW 
> >frequencies simultaneously, it's highly unlikely to provide the 
> >single-optimized-frequency performance of an inductively coupled FSL 
> >antenna when used with an Ultralight radio. 
> > 
> >This is the flip side of a challenge that has been intriguing the 
> >local Perseus-SDR DXers for about 5 years now-- how to somehow 
> >combine the single-optimized-frequency performance of the FSL's with 
> >the 50-ohm input Perseus-SDR's, and still have spectrum capture 
> >capability. That challenge is equally monumental. 
> > 
> >73, Gary DeBock (in Puyallup, WA) 
> > 
> > 
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> > 
> >From: "Richard N Allen" <richarda@xxxxxxxxxxxx> 
> >To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> >Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 6:30:01 AM 
> >Subject: [IRCA] Oklahoma TP DX 8/29/17 
> > 
> >The only possible signal heard here from across the Pacific was a 
> >significant carrier from the WSW on 702 kHz, most likely from 2BL. 
> >It was first heard as a slight heterodyne against 700-XEGD at 1142 
> >UTC becoming much stronger toward sunrise at 1200. It peaked at 1201 
> >before fading somewhat at 1204, then regaining in strength 1206. The 
> >signal began fading away from 1210 but didn't disappear until around 
> >1225. In the past 2BL has been the most often heard DU carrier 
> >signal here, but only rising above the audio threshold a few times. 
> > 
> >No Asian signals were observed. Also, there wasn't the usual trace 
> >of a signal from DU on 612. 
> > 
> >Question: Is it feasible to couple a Wellbrook ALA1530LNP aerial 
> >with a C Crane Skywave receiver without serious modification? I'd 
> >like try using them together. 
> > 
> >Richard Allen, 
> >near Perry OK USA, 
> >Skywave & 8-inch FSL. 
> > 
> >Sent from my iPad 
> > 
> >-- 
> >This message has been scanned for viruses and 
> >dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 
> >believed to be clean. 
> > 
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>Nick Hall-Patch 
>Victoria, BC 
>Canada 
> 
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Nick Hall-Patch 
Victoria, BC 
Canada 

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