--- Begin Message ---
- Subject: Re: [CapeDX] Mobile DX Recording Question
- From: Mark Connelly <markwa1ion@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2016 12:09:23 -0400
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I wasn't looking at email when this discussion started but am now going over all the posts.
One thing that has not been mentions is RF interference FROM the digital recording device. A laptop is more likely to introduce noise / spurious signals than small hand-held recorders.
Old-school cassette recorders even had some degree of trouble with bias harmonics (much like old-school TV sweep harmonics on ~15.7 kHz multiples). In tough situations, however, cassette recorders may still be worth considering. Maybe it's not too much of a stretch to think about keeping a battery-operated portable one in any serious DXpedition kit. Run its output into the Total Recorder, Audacity etc. equipped laptop later on.
Those who use Ultralights will seldom be using a PC-based recording set-up because of the RFI issue.
>From Gary DeBock's numerous DXpedition posts, I have gleaned that, at various times, Edirol R09 and Sony ICDSX68 have been mentioned. Many of the reports don't say much about how audio was recorded. Not sure what mp3's were via patch cable or via speaker-to-mike.
If you look on Amazon you'll see that Sony makes quite a few recorders with the "ICD" prefix. There are also several worthwhile models by Olympus, Archos, Tascam, Marantz, and others.
Edirol is a more professional brand (aimed at musicians), with a price to match. Its R-09 and R-05 clock in around $200 to $300 so probably overkill for most applications.
As Bruce mentioned, the CC Witness and Pogo LX are completely usable for DX recording. I have both.
This 2006 recording of Saudi Arabia 1521 made at Granite Pier (Rockport, MA) was with the Pogo LX and is among the first direct-to-digital (i.e. no cassette intermediary) DX recordings made in the car. Receiver was the Drake R8A.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/w913oj2m1m3qpas/dx_saudi_arabia-1521_20060503_2300z.mp3
The next year I got my first SDR (RFSpace SDR-IQ) followed by the Perseus in '09 so the Pogo sort of went into mothballs.
The audio does sound slightly "artifacty" (for lack of a better term) but hey, we're talking DX here, not the Boston Symphony Orchestra.
For me there are still some niche uses for portable digital recorders.
One of these is recording speech, music, and wildlife sounds from built-in microphone(s). One model that I used successfully is the Zoom H2. It did quite well when set up outside here on a humid late summer night when the tree frogs, cicadas, crickets, and birds were making a ruckus.
The Zoom H2 can also be used for DX recording. This is still a necessary use when conventional radios are employed. The radio could be an Ultralight, some other portable, or a traditional desktop model. Even when an SDR is expected to be the DX work horse, you should have a back-up plan in case the SDR or laptop goes down. I like to have my Sony ICF-2010 or Palstar R30 with extra batteries in my DXpedition kit just in case. That bit of redundancy planning would also include a portable digital recorder and maybe the old cassette recorder as well.
Unlike some units, the Zoom H2/H2N gives a choice between automatic audio levelling (compression) and full (uncompressed) dynamic range where you adjust the setting (on its "meter" display) for peaks thereby getting a truer reproduction of the original source.
https://www.amazon.com/Zoom-H2N-H2n-Handy-Recorder/dp/B005CQ2ZY6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472916567&sr=8-1&keywords=h2n+zoom
Ability to record uncompressed is certainly important for musicians and those making field recordings of nature's sounds. Maybe not quite as important for DX.
Bruce mentioned the CC Witness. I used mine successfully in 2013 on a quick-sneak-away-for-DX during a family trip to South Carolina.
As the following WBZ from SC recording shows, the unit does the job:
http://chowdanet.com/markc/dx_audio/wbz-1030_heard_in_sc_20131226_2315z.mp3
Receiver was the Kaito KA1103 connected via patch cord. Using a nearby PC to record probably would have drowned the signal in RFI.
But going back to the subject of PC-based recording, there are numerous outboard audio-to-USB solutions. Manhattan and Honestech are two brands I know about. Some of the devices even include their own audio recording and editing software. They're also handy for taking AV video from a camcorder, VCR, cable box, etc. to create video files on your PC. As use of such devices by devotees of YouTube are popular, there are quite a few out there from which to choose.
On the lower tech side there's just the simple expedient of a radio-to-PC patch cable with a resistive divider in the middle to convert the computer's mike input to the gain equivalent of a line level input. Not exactly rocket science.
I have reconnected several messages on this thread for continuity since not everything went to both the IRCA and CapeDX list.
There will likely be other thoughts from the West Coast crowd. After all, that hotbed-of-DXing area gave us the "High Tech DXpeditioning" article way back in 2003.
http://www.dswci.org/specials/tech/hitechdx/hitechdx.html
Mark Connelly, WA1ION
South Yarmouth, MA
===========
... I would recommend the C.Crane Witness mp3 player/recorder. I have its predecessor, the Pogo LX mp3 player/recorder, now some 15 years (?) old and still in use here for converting analog to digital (and for music during long training runs). I've been able to plug it into the headphone output of various devices that don't have line-level out, and no problems with overload.
--
Bruce Conti
B.A.Conti Photography www.baconti.com
ÂBAMLog! www.bamlog.com
>>
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill Nollman' billct97@xxxxxxxxxxx [CapeDX] <CapeDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: CapeDX <CapeDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: irca <irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2016 5:55 pm
Subject: RE: [CapeDX] Mobile DX Recording Question
I like the non MKII version of the DR07 because it had the best levels when switching between Line In and MIC. IIRC I would have to adjust the rotary 0-10 knob when doing that with the MKII. But with the older DR07 I never had to. If that doesnât matter then just about any Tascam digital recorder should work well for you. Audio quality is amazing.
Bill
From: CapeDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:CapeDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 4:53 PM
To: CapeDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [CapeDX] Mobile DX Recording Question
Looks great, Bill. I think I'll go with something brand new, possibly the DR07. Nice to get such a large & quick response. DXers are the best!
TTYL.
Marc DeLorenzo
South Dennis, Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://forums.wtfda.org/showthread.php?228-DeLorenzo-s-Classic-DX
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill Nollman' billct97@xxxxxxxxxxx [CapeDX] <CapeDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: CapeDX <CapeDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: irca <irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2016 4:42 pm
Subject: RE: [CapeDX] Mobile DX Recording Question
The Turtle Beach (long discontinued) is external. Plugs into a USB port, load the software and switch your default sound card to it. Iâve done it 1000 times but unfortunately now have mostly Windows 10 computers. Youâd think I would have sold it already but canât bear to part with technology that was so good.
Hereâs a picture and some details - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/562210-REG/Turtle_Beach_TBS_1131_Audio_Advantage_SRM_External.html
Bill
From: CapeDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:CapeDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 4:26 PM
To: CapeDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [CapeDX] Mobile DX Recording Question
OK, Thanks Bill. Yes, the Laptop has Windows 7. I will look for the Tascam DR07. Does the Turtle Beach sound card work as an "outboard" device or does it need to be installed internally?
Marc DeLorenzo
South Dennis, Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://forums.wtfda.org/showthread.php?228-DeLorenzo-s-Classic-DX
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill Nollman' billct97@xxxxxxxxxxx [CapeDX] <CapeDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: CapeDX <CapeDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: irca <irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2016 4:11 pm
Subject: RE: [CapeDX] Mobile DX Recording Question
Mark, audio recording with a laptop or digital device. One of my favorite topics.
Option #1 - Iâll assume the laptop is Windows 7 or lower â in which case I have a Turtle Beach USB sound card (looks like a small pager, no drivers for Win8 or 10) that Iâve been debating putting on eBay. Audio input is excellent and has a built in microphone and switch on the device if you want to add comments as you record.
Option #2 â digital recorder. Tons of options really expensive right down to cheap. I prefer somewhere in the middle. My favorite digital recorder is the Tascam DR07 (the older DR07 not the DR07 mkII). Recording quality is amazing and with a 2GB card you can record for hours at 256kbps MP3. With a 16GB card you probably canât fill it up ever. Quality is excellent, controls are excellent. The built in mic is good as well although a bit trickier to switch over to than the USB âcardâ.
Option #3 â you can probably find dirt cheap mp3 recorders from Hong Kong for under $10. IMHO you get what you pay for in this category. But for some peoples ears itâs more than perfect.
Bill Nollman
Farmington, CT.
From: CapeDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:CapeDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 3:34 PM
To: capedx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [CapeDX] Mobile DX Recording Question
Mark Connelly has built for me an amplified whip antenna with magnetic base that I can mount on the roof of my car for oceanfront DXpeditions. We tested it in an RFI quiet zone - the local cemetery! - and it works fine with my JRC NRD-525 receiver.
The problem is recording DX using Total Recorder on my laptop. The laptop does not have an audio "line in" jack so I have been trying to use the microphone jack. It records but the audio playback is quite distorted. On the laptop I get the following message from Total Recorder:
"The level of the source signal is too high. Possibly the characteristics of the sound source do not match those of the soundboard input (e.g. instead of soundboard's line-in connector, the microphone-in connector is used.) Recording is possible, but the quality of the recorded sound may be low."
Right. I noticed that. 8-) The question is what is the solution to the problem. 20 years ago I had an "attenuating cable" from Radio Shack that might solve the problem. But, like a dummy, I through it away thinking that, "I'll never have any use for that." I doubt that RS still carries this product.
So, is there a Total Recorder setting that might work? Or, should I scrap Total Recorder and buy a portable digital recorder? If so, which one? A digital recorder (with a line-in jack of course) would be better in that it is smaller and would take up less space in the car.
Any help appreciated.
Marc DeLorenzo
South Dennis, MA
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