Scott, I would object to being characterized as not doing the research. Iâve spent dozens of hours on this in the past month alone. Time sink doesnât begin to describe it.
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No one is suggesting that the BBC not move with the times. The issue here is that they are ahead of the market and hardware and they did so without warning. Had they added HLS as a transport protocol for AAC and given a âsunsetâ date for dropping the existing Shoutcast streams, my guess is there wouldnât be near the upset. This is what they did with WMA and aside from the adverse impact to on demand listening (which was cutoff without warning), very few have complained. Likewise, most listeners wonât be upset to see MP3 go away but right now it is all the BBC is offering to those who cannot handle HLS. The BBC also claimed they had contacted hardware manufacturers last year however nearly every manufacturer that has commented has said the BBC did not contact them or they indicated Shoutcast (AAC) would continue and didnât mention HLS. The BBC test streams for this changeover wereâ. yes, Shoutcast not HLS.
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If I surveyed the 125 to150k streams out there, I am betting that 90+% are not HLS/HDS/DASH exclusively. I see the stats on adoption and there is no doubt that is the future but it isnât the present. We can argue market all we want but the BBC is a public broadcaster not a private company and Iâm sure all of those blind listeners donât care a whit about the technical details. All they know is that their devices no longer work. As someone who spent $1,000 on a Sonos system that no longer plays the BBC if they care about the new protocols. We both know the answer.
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Quoting the web site you mentioned: ÂâAdobe, Microsoft and Transitions wrote an interesting white paper highlighting the advantages of fMP4 (HDS) over MPEG2-TS (HLS).â
fMP4 is HDS not HLS according to overdigital.com . So far the BBC has implemented HLS. It plans to do HDS soon and DASH at some unannounced date in the next year or so. As of now, you must have a license to include HLS in hardware products. Apple has said this. Again, Iâm fine with that if that was not at the expense of most of their audience and it was a well-planned transition. This is anything but that.
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Iâve read that Android had HLS in its design since 3.0. Reports from the field suggest it is more complicated than that so what individual cellular manufacturers did was obviously something else. The only thing Iâve been able to confirm definitely is that 99+% of current generation (4.4 and 5.0) phones work with HLS.
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--
-Rob de SantosÂ
From: Scott Royall [mailto:royall@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 3:51 PM
To: Rob de Santos
Subject: Re: [Swprograms] Links to info on BBC streaming changes and effort to Restore Internet feedsÂ
Oh boy, this topic has splendid potential for turning into an excellent time-sink, and I really don't have that sort of time to spare. It is apparent that people aren't doing the prerequisite research necessary to understand what is going on, and why. If BBC really is trying to run both HDS and HLS, they are effectively attempting to ride two competing horses of future content delivery, and they should be applauded for continuing to staying ahead of the trailing wave. A general reminder: The Internet doesn't need 50 years to innovate, unlike arguably "Shortwave." Driven by profit, the competitive atmosphere of the 'Net forces greater and greater efficiency, and MP3 feeds simply aren't.
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What about the various appliances for playing MP3 audio from the 'Net? Well, I have a counter-question to offer. Why do people keep buying software-based devices from manufacturers who cannot or will not easily update those things? This laptop gets software updates with almost alarming frequency. Same goes for your smartphone or whatever you're reading this email on. I guess you were unaware that HLS has been in Android since version 3.0. (Sorry, it was news to me also.) The bottom line is that we are in a softworld these days where the media transport can, and does, change. You have no worries as long as your content consumption device is equally agile.
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By the way, HLS is just an implementation of fMP4, which is as open as a Texas sky. That means you don't have to be Apple to consume the Kool-Aid. :)Â
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You might start your research with:Âhttp://www.overdigital.com/2011/12/27/hls-vs-hds-what-is-the-difference-and-why-you-should-care/
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On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 1:37 AM, Rob de Santos <rdesantos@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
As noted in other posts, TuneIn works, mostly. They are feeding the 128k MP3 feeds the BBC is providing for its stations as a temporary measure. These streams have proven to be unreliable and subject to buffering but more importantly, will go away in a year (date not specified by BBC). Since TuneIn cannot yet handle the permanent streams (HLS or HDS transport protocol) it is at risk. My guess would be that TuneIn will fix it on platforms where it can, such as later versions of Android, but not elsewhere.
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Further, TuneIn is not a substitute for the native streaming capability on many platforms dependent on Reciva, vTuner, Frontier, Sonos, etc. either because it is not available or is a plug-in/add-on feature. Itâs great where it works and I use it but there are many, many streams it does not offer. Until TuneIn can provide higher quality streams it is no better than the 128k streams that Reciva or vTuner have plugged in, too. OK for talk, lousy for music, and temporary.
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Remember what the BBC has told listeners as it pulled shortwave service: you donât need shortwave you have the internet. Not any longer.
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--
-Rob de SantosÂ
From: Scott Royall [mailto:royall@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 1:37 AM
To: Rob de Santos; Shortwave programming discussion
Subject: Re: [Swprograms] Links to info on BBC streaming changes and effort to Restore Internet feedsÂ
Actually, I am rather puzzled by all this angst over the availability of BBC streams. Am I the only one who knows about tunein.com? They have the whole enchilada, some locals, National, and World Service.
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