Re: [IRCA] All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results Unveiled

[Russ Edmunds <wb2bjh@xxxxxxxxx>]

The lack of success of HD on both AM and FM should be a lesson that not
only do people need a reason to switch, it needs to be a strong reason.
It is true that for both, the capable receivers were neither readily
available nor reasonably priced.

As to the coverage issues, there's a lesson to be learned from the TV
conversion. In most cases, the digital coverage area was less than the
analog coverage area, and the nature of the digital signals - all or
nothing - is a contributing factor to that.

I see nothing to suggest that digital on either AM or FM would improve
reception in large concrete and steel buildings in the cities. Certainly
that isn't the case with IBOC.

The past 30 or so years however have demonstrated that neither the industry
leaders nor the FCC are very good at absorbing the lessons of their past
actions.


Russ Edmunds
15 mi NW Phila
Grid FN20id
<wb2bjh@xxxxxxxxx>

AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip
FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder;
Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2);
modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15';
Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip


On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Rick Lewis <ricklew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Chuck,
> I'm convinced that any incomplete transition to digital would be so
> chaotic,
> and the results so unacceptable for listeners, that it would be the last
> nail in the coffin for AM.
> First people would need a reason to convert to HD.
> The audio sounds so artificial that it's fatiguing.
> The hash is so overpowering that the interference levels would be far
> greater than anything our electronic landscape creates.
> Fortunately, it would take less of a signal for an HD station to lock, but
> non-HD stations would suffer greater interference.
> Unfortunately, neither KRKO nor the 1520 did their HD during the originally
> scheduled nighttime hours, so I never found out if their weaker signals
> locked into HD here. I would have been truly amazed if 1520's HD could have
> overcome the interference from Oregon (the Saturday reschedule would have
> been great, since Lake Oswego was weak, but equipment problems prevented
> the
> night test.)
> I suspect KRKO would have succeeded at night.
> Incidentally, the promos talked about how clear the stereo was going to be,
> etc., but the program sources for both stations was all mono, yes, even the
> music on 1520.
> And quite compressed, too.
> --
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: IRCA [mailto:irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chuck
> Hutton
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 9:55 AM
> To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
> <irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results Unveiled
>
> You can bet on that, as it would be impossible for each and every station
> to
> switch over at the same time.
> If the FCC mandates a switch to all digital, there would need to be a long
> time period for that to occur to allow transmission equipment equipment to
> be available, stations to buy the equipment as money is available,
> engineers
> to install and test the system, all sorts of sonsumer receivers to become
> available and for the public to buy receivers.
> If the FCC didn't mandate a switch and left it to market forces, expect the
> transition to never be complete.
>
> Chuck
> ________________________________________
> From: IRCA <irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Russ Edmunds
> <wb2bjh@xxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 10:44 AM
> To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results Unveiled
>
> If the intent were for all stations to go digital, then such a test would
> be
> meaningless; this suggests therefore that there is contemplation of mixing
> all digital with analog all within the AM band ??
>
> Russ Edmunds
> 15 mi NW Phila
> Grid FN20id
> <wb2bjh@xxxxxxxxx>
>
> AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip
> FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder; Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun
> PL-310 ( 2); modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15'; Grundig G8 w/whip;
> modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 1:03 AM, Chuck Hutton <charlesh3@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Yes, desired to undesired is often-used nomenclature in the
> > communications world.
> >
> > I don't see how you can correlate hybrid IBOC to all digital IBOC.
> > What you hear with KRKO/KAST is different from what you will hear with
> > all digital as the power spectrum and subcarrier levels are vastly
> > different.
> >
> > Chuck
> > ________________________________________
> > From: IRCA <irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Nick
> > Hall-Patch < nhp@xxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 4:51 AM
> > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
> > Subject: Re: [IRCA] All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
> > Unveiled
> >
> > I presume "D/U" abbreviation in this piece refers to "desired /
> undesired"?
> >
> > I wonder if someone recorded audio from those tests, rather than just
> > tossing dB's around?   I have a recording of KAST-1370 from this
> > morning that says otherwise, with KRKO-1380 IBOC sidebands about 25dB
> > down and....welll, KAST is readable, but I wouldn't say it's lacking
> > interference.   The noise becomes really dominant if KAST is less
> > than ~15dB above the IBOC level.
> >
> > best wishes,
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 21:05 21-04-16, you wrote:
> > >
> > http://www.radioworld.com/article/all-digital-am-co-channel-lab-test-r
> > esults-unveiled/278670
> > >
> > >Sent from my iPad
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