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Re: [IRCA] IBOC Hash AM vs FM OT question
Rick,
I do not get Seattle FM on Trops, at least what is transmitted from the mountain tops. Most of what in on Tiger and Cougar Mountains are there 24/7. They are not DX. Now the signal can vary and they do. Like tonight only one or two stations are locking in HD. Earlier this morning there were about a half a dozen. I have tried to hear "any" hash and I just do not get any. The strongest station I get is a Classical one on 88.1 about 100 miles away near Newport OR. With the yagi pointed right them, 88.3 is clear as a bell. A very weak signal is on it, but I note no hash. So I guess if the filters are that good and the distance is there, I guess that keeps the hash out. Now on E Skip when I get some, I might get adjacent channel noise then, if the signal is local-like. I used to get some E Skip's that strong. I would think the station was 10 miles away instead of a thousand. I am sure with the FM6 yagi that I will get E Skip. The antenna is directional enough, but not too directional, so any strong skip should pop in, no matter what direction I am pointing it. I generally leave it ENE. I get Portland porr, and Seattle better, but most skip comes East of me. On occasion So Cal & AZ pops in though. At least it used to. But like with any DX, the DXer needs to be there at the right time. Thanks for the feedback.
Patrick Martin
Seaside OR
KGED QSL Manager
> From: ricklew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 07:04:56 -0700
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] IBOC Hash AM vs FM OT question
>
> Hi Patrick,
> Sounds to me like you're working with, and benefiting from, very narrow
> filters on your FM.
> At least in my experience with the Sony X-drs3Hd and other radios at their
> factory settings without extra filtering, if an HD decodes, adjacents won't
> be heard.
> Granted, Seattle doesn't have trop the way the Northeast or southern
> California does.
> The Sony filters out much of the HD noise, but adjacents are still covered
> up.
> I also have a Tecsun portable CR-1100. Unusually, it doesn't filter out the
> HD noise on adjacents.
> I'm sure most people find those huge blocks of noise objectionable, but not
> me, because most of the time you can tell how well you're nulling out the HD
> adjacent. Some HD signals are misleading, but in many cases, even strong HD
> signals can be nulled out enough to that a semistrong station can defeat
> them.
> I'm blind, so I can't say how well the Sonys indicate nulling visually and
> whether this can be helpful.
> But with the CR-1100 it's easy to audibly determine when an HD adjacent is
> being nulled.
> On the Sony it's not.
> --
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: IRCA [mailto:irca-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Hawkins
> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 1:51 AM
> To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] IBOC Hash AM vs FM OT question
>
> I don't get hash on distant FM stations, but there really isn't hash at all.
> Its a blanking of adjacents. You have to remember too that they are using
> lower power for the digital components. If they up the power, you'll get
> the full force of the signal.
>
> They try to convince us that this is the future of radio, but the last thing
> I want is to know whether Rush Limbaugh is wheezing. AM is sports or
> conservative talk. FM is I-Heart-Monopoly. If it weren't for skip, I would
> listen exclusively to the all-news station until I got bored with it.
> Outside of the DX groups, I don't even know anyone who listens to radio
> anymore. I know nobody who even owns a HD radio. They have had years to
> get one, so where are they. I think the only thing that HD radio has really
> accomplished is to lose all of the non-locals and semi-locals in the noise
> left behind by the artifacts.
>
> The fidelity doesn't matter if the choices are non-existent. Elvis left the
> building years ago.
>
> Mike
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 1:11 AM, Patrick Martin <mwdxer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Mike. It sounds like, at least in your case, the FM IBOC noise
> > is an issue if on a local station. Do you get any IBOC FM Hash on
> > distant stations? As I mentioned, even the powerful 88.1 from Newport
> > down the coast, it is stable and I get both channels FM1 & FM2, yet on
> > 88.3 I hear a mix of Portland and some translator. I have compared a
> > non-IBOC near an IBOC, both distant signals and I do not notice
> > anything different. The hash must be wiped out at some distance then. I am
> glad we have no IBOC locally.
> > At least for now. Our stations for the most part have little money, so
> > I doubt we will get any soon. Two stations do run RDS though. KFMY
> > 99.7 I never detected the RDS before I got the FM6 up. The other is
> > KOAC FM 89.7 and they are strong in RDS.
> >
> > Patrick Martin
> > Seaside OR
> > KGED QSL Manager
> >
> > > Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 00:57:49 -0700
> > > From: michael.d.hawkins@xxxxxxxxx
> > > To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] IBOC Hash AM vs FM OT question
> > >
> > > To me, FM IBOC is like bacon sizzling as its cooking. It not as
> > obnoxious
> > > as it is on AM, but it has the same effect. As an example, 97.3 in
> > > San Francisco (xmtr 20 or so miles away) runs IBOC. It does not
> > > have obvious artifacts on adjacent channels. If they turn it off
> > > (as they sometimes do), I immediately have a strong signal from
> > > Visalia CA (200 miles away) and a RDS readout. I don't get RDS on
> > > 97.5, but I also get a strong
> > signal
> > > from 97.5 in Merced about 130 miles away. Its effect is as bad on
> > > FM as
> > it
> > > is on AM. You just don't notice how bad it really is until you can
> > > do an IBOC on/IBOC off comparison.
> > >
> > > I have a college station on 91.1 that uses HD 1 mile away from me.
> > > I cannot get the Sacramento powerhouse on 90.9 until I am 15-20
> > > miles away, and if I hear anything at all on 91.3, I know its skip.
> > > The Stockton station on 91.3 NEVER comes in at all.
> > >
> > > Mike Hawkins
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 12:33 AM, Patrick Martin <mwdxer@xxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is a bit off tropic, but I know some of you DX FM at times. I
> > > > just got an FM6 yagi up and I am very impressed with the Sony XFR
> radio.
> > Between
> > > > the filters and sensitivity, it leaves my old Pioneer TX9100 in
> > > > the
> > dust
> > > > (1970s). Anyway, out here on the Northern Oregon Coast we have no
> > > > AM
> > or FM
> > > > HD stations. The nearest are Newport (100 miles), Portland (75
> > > > miles),
> > or
> > > > Seattle (130 miles). I have received several FM stations in HD. A
> > > > few
> > stay
> > > > locked and others come and go. But so far I have not detected any
> > > > hash
> > on
> > > > adjacent frequencies. None. The tuner is very selective and sensitive.
> > I
> > > > can easily get weak stations next to locals without any splash.
> > > > The HD signals like 95.7 Seattle, I can easily get 95.9 Bay City
> > > > OR, and so
> > on. AM
> > > > IBOC hash is horrible as we all know and covers great distances.
> > > > Off
> > the
> > > > Eastern Beverage I have heard IBOC hash from the Midwest at night.
> > > > But
> > so
> > > > far nothing on FM. This is my first shot at hearing FM HD. One
> > > > thing I
> > will
> > > > say, the FM dial is sure a l
> > > > ot different than it was 20 years ago. Translators all over the
> > > > place along with some LPFMs. By the way, I do find FM HD to be
> > > > touchy, as I
> > get
> > > > nothing in HD from Portland over the Coast range, not even a
> > > > flashing
> > HD
> > > > symbol. But Seattle from Cougar & Tiger Mountains come in much
> > stronger. I
> > > > have even caught several with their sub channels. But does FM IBOC
> > > > hash cause as much noise locally? It sure does not carry very far.
> > > > I cannot
> > wait
> > > > for my first E Skip as I might get a taste of "local" sounding
> > > > station
> > in
> > > > HD. Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Patrick
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Patrick Martin
> > > > Seaside OR
> > > > KGED QSL Manager
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