Re: [IRCA] [NRC-AM] Building a "state of the art" MW DX station

[Russ Edmunds <wb2bjh@xxxxxxxxx>]

No need to use the Wellbrook in the horizontal plane. It's a loop and not a wire, plus it's broadband, so I don't think that would impact any noise, and the Wellbrook also ought to be quieter than either a wire or a vertical to begin with.

I'm going to be trying a small ( roughly 6' x 8' ) flag mounted on the inside wall of my garage this Spring. I'll have to amplify it of course, but I'm hopeful that will play in my high-noise, high-RF location. Since my shack is below grade, I lose low angle signals using loops in the basement, so i need something elevated. 

Russ Edmunds
15 mi NNW of Philadelphia  
Grid FN20id
<wb2bjh@xxxxxxxxx>
FM: Yamaha T-80 & Onkyo T-450RDS w/ APS9B @15'; Grundig G8
AM:  Modified Sony ICF 2010's barefoot


--- On Mon, 1/2/12, Les Rayburn <les@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> From: Les Rayburn <les@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] [NRC-AM]  Building a "state of the art" MW DX station
> To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Monday, January 2, 2012, 8:38 PM
> Russ,
> 
> I had considered flags, EWE, or the new "Super-loop"
> antennas, but 
> unfortunately, the property doesn't lend itself well to
> them.
> 
> The subdivision was basically "stripped bare" of trees when
> it was built 
> four years ago. The trees that are in my yard are less than
> 15 feet 
> high, and not configured properly for an antenna. We have a
> privacy 
> fence, but it's very low in height 6 feet, so no joy there
> either.
> 
> I agree that verticals are not generally a good choice for
> MW reception. 
> Both of the LF Engineering whips pick up a lot of noise on
> the roof. Any 
> other ideas? Would the Wellbrook loop work well if it was
> oriented in a 
> horizontal plane?
> 
> Any other ideas on how to reduce noise levels?
> 
> Les Rayburn, Director
> High Noon Film
> 130 1st Avenue West
> Alabaster, AL 35007-8536
> (205) 621-7500
> (205) 621-7505 FAX
> (205) 253-4867 CELL
> http://www.highnoonfilm.com
> 
> 
> On 1/2/2012 7:24 PM, Russ Edmunds wrote:
> > Les, you may want to consider a "stealth" antenna of
> another sort - a flag.
> >
> > It can be mounted in a rectangular array on an outer
> wall or an interior wall or between trees if they're
> situated properly. Since the wire used can be fairly small,
> it hides well.
> >
> > That also requires a matching transformer. Details can
> be found amongst some of Conelly's articles or Bruce
> Conti's.
> >
> > I'm just not sold on a vertical in a high noise
> location. Most man-made electrical noise is vertically
> polarized, and the use of a vertical frequently increases
> the signal/noise ratio.
> >
> >
> > Russ Edmunds
> > 15 mi NNW of Philadelphia
> > Grid FN20id
> > <wb2bjh@xxxxxxxxx>
> > FM: Yamaha T-80&  Onkyo T-450RDS w/ APS9B
> @15'; Grundig G8
> > AM:  Modified Sony ICF 2010's barefoot
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 1/2/12, Mark Durenberger<Mark4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Mark Durenberger<Mark4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Subject: Re: [NRC-AM] [IRCA] Building a "state of
> the art" MW DX station
> >> To: am@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Cc: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club
> of America"<irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Date: Monday, January 2, 2012, 8:19 PM
> >> About 4:1 ratio should work. 
> >> Most folks like to roll their own but you can
> >> also try:
> >>
> >> http://www.minicircuits.com/products/Transformers.shtml
> >>
> >> Should work if you're not near any high RF fields
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Mark Durenberger
> >>
> >>
> --------------------------------------------------
> >> From: "Les Rayburn"<les@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 6:39 PM
> >> To: "Mark Durenberger"<Mark4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Cc: "DX @NRC"<am@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
> >> "Mailing list for the International Radio
> >> Club of America"<irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Subject: Re: [NRC-AM] [IRCA] Building a "state of
> the art"
> >> MW DX station
> >>
> >>> Mark,
> >>>
> >>> Excellent points regarding the change in
> "mindset"
> >> when using a SDR
> >>> receiver. Hadn't really thought it about it
> that way.
> >>>
> >>> I might be able to erect a "fold over"
> vertical
> >> antenna that I could
> >>> deploy only during listening sessions.
> Assuming
> >> something like 30 feet
> >>> in length, what would I need for a matching
> >> transformer?
> >>>
> >>> Les Rayburn, Director
> >>> High Noon Film
> >>> 130 1st Avenue West
> >>> Alabaster, AL 35007-8536
> >>> (205) 621-7500
> >>> (205) 621-7505 FAX
> >>> (205) 253-4867 CELL
> >>> http://www.highnoonfilm.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 1/2/2012 6:23 PM, Mark Durenberger wrote:
> >>>> Hi Les...good for you!
> >>>>
> >>>> As a general comment addressing two of
> your
> >> questions:  The "real" SDR

> >>>> is a tool you'll fall in love with.
> >> However...you'll have to make
> >>>> somewhat of a tradeoff from the original
> way of
> >> thinking.  We've all
> >>>> used loops to pinpoint and tune a
> specific
> >> frequency.  That's sort of
> >>>> counter-productive when you're using an
> SDR to
> >> capture the entire band
> >>>> because you usually don't want to favor a
> unique
> >> channel.
> >>>> So if you're doing wideband with SDR
> you're
> >> probably going to want to
> >>>> do a Beverage or a vertical.  Sounds
> like a
> >> Beverage is out for you.
> >>>> I've had tremendous luck with a 30-foot
> vertical
> >> and a Perseus SDR.
> >>>> No amplification needed; just a matching
> >> transformer.
> >>>> It also sounds like you expect a lot of
> local
> >> noise.  So you'll
> >>>> probably want to look at a real
> noise-cancelling
> >> antenna.
> >>>> Google Dallas Lankford's vertical antennas
> and
> >> some of Mark Connelly's
> >>>> work.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Mark Durenberger
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> --------------------------------------------------
> >>>> From: "Les Rayburn"<les@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 6:02 PM
> >>>> To:<am@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
> >> <irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
> >> <Tvfmdx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Subject: [IRCA] Building a "state of the
> art" MW
> >> DX station
> >>>>> iAfter an absence from medium wave
> dxing due
> >> to a move to a new
> >>>>> deed-restricted QTH, I find myself
> itching to
> >> get serious again.
> >>>>> While my present home is far from idea
> (HOA,
> >> and high local noise
> >>>>> levels), I'm determined to make the
> best of
> >> it.
> >>>>> Presently, I have the following
> equipment
> >> available for us:
> >>>>> Icom 746 Pro transceiver
> >>>>> RF Space SDR-IQ receiver
> >>>>> Wellbrook AL-1530 Loop antenna
> >>>>> Radio Plus Quantum Phaser
> >>>>> LF Engineering M-601C Active Whip
> antenna
> >>>>> LF Engineering H-800 Active Whip
> antenna
> >>>>> LF Engineering N-300 Group loop
> isolator
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My questions are numerous, but here
> are the
> >> general ones:
> >>>>> 1.) To build a state of the art
> system, would
> >> you recommend
> >>>>> up-grading the SDR-IQ to the Perseus
> or new
> >> WinRadio SDR?
> >>>>> 2.) Are there active whip antennas
> that
> >> perform better than the LF
> >>>>> Engineering models? (I have mounted
> these to
> >> my roof vents, painted
> >>>>> them black--and so far, no complaints
> from the
> >> neighbors.
> >>>>> 3.) I have a undeveloped drainage
> ditch next
> >> to my home that offers
> >>>>> the possibility of a beverage on the
> ground
> >> antenna that would run
> >>>>> N/S for 500-800 feet. What couplers
> would you
> >> recommend for this use?
> >>>>> 4.) Anyone tried the LF Engineering
> M-607
> >> Active Loop antenna? Pricey
> >>>>> at $390 but perhaps worth it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 5.) Any other station accessories that
> would
> >> improve things for me?
> >>>>> Primary interest is in domestic MW
> DXing,
> >> though I don't mind logging
> >>>>> TA signals when they "in" (rare here).
> Love to
> >> DX stations in the
> >>>>> Western part of the country most of
> all.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for the advice, and 73,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Les Rayburn, N1LF
> >>>>> Alabaster, AL (Near Birmingham)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -- 
> >>>>> Les Rayburn, Director
> >>>>> High Noon Film
> >>>>> 130 1st Avenue West
> >>>>> Alabaster, AL 35007-8536
> >>>>> (205) 621-7500
> >>>>> (205) 621-7505 FAX
> >>>>> (205) 253-4867 CELL
> >>>>> http://www.highnoonfilm.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
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