From: "HASCALL, DAVID CIV DFAS" <DAVID.HASCALL@xxxxxxxx>
To: <irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <cgknight63@xxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: IRCA Digest, Vol 52, Issue 35
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:48:04 -0400
I *think* that AM analog and IBOC are piggybacked.
AM IBOC has made 1000-1200 KHz a bunch of noise, for me.
IBOC making FM MS DX'ing easier? IBOC? I wouldn't think so. First,
they don't use IBOC in Europe, AFAIK. DAB, maybe. RDS (analog) and the
RDS that are carried with digital signals may indeed make MS (or tropo
scatter) loggings easier. The Sangean HDT1 has (from what I'm told) a
fast RDS capture ratio. Instead of trying to figure out where an eight
second meteor sctter burst is from by listening to "that was five in a
row on today's best...." versus simnply having "KHFI Austin's best"
displaying on the readout makes FM DX'ing MUCH easier!
Dave
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 12:27:48 -0600
From: "CHRIS KNIGHT" <cgknight63@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [IRCA] Skywave noise
To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BLU125-F1010B5D40D007097B0180ED36D0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Dave,
Thanks for the response! Do you (or anyone else) know if AM IBOC is
transmitted along with the analog signal and the sidebands 25kHz away
from
the center carrier frequency simply result from the modulated carrier?
Or,
are the digital channels transmitted separately from the carrier? Just
curious. I know IBOC is being called "hybrid" (analog and digital).
Also,
there was something about British AM stations being mandated to go "all
digital" by a certain year. I wonder if they meant "IBOC"? Just trying
to
get a handle on all of this...
There are some great Youtube videos of a European DXer in Ireland that
uses
what appears to be IBOC to aid in ID'ing FM BCB stations coming in via
meteor scatter. In that case, IBOC made meteor scatter DXing much
easier. As
far as AM IBOC, DXers could be missing out on a real opportunity. Each
AM
IBOC "channel" is on a pretty clear frequency 25kHz on either side from
the
carrier center frequency. Not too many stations currently have IBOC so
co-channel QRM on the IBOC sidebands is still minimal. Wouldn't it be
possible to design a decent receiver with great filtering that only
picked
up these digital signals and DX these newest "clear" channels,
propagation
permitting? Just a thought....
Re. TV DX I really had no clue other than certain DXers saying "last
chance
to get in on the E-skip action". I guess the whole reason (or one of the
reasons) behind transitioning to digital in Feb. 2009 would be to free
up
bandwidth (isn't current TV bandwidth/channel something like 6MHz?). So,
I
wonder how much bandwidth this move will actually free up.
Agreed that the AM BCB was never meant to have IBOC or any baseband
signals
over 20kHz. To accomodate IBOC with the number of channels it now has,
the
AM band would need to be increased to about 4MHz. With the IBOC and the
BPL
(Broadband over powerlines) decisions, the FCC isn't coming across as an
entity with very much integrity. 73.
Chris Knight
Fort Lupton, Colorado
>From: "HASCALL, DAVID CIV DFAS" <DAVID.HASCALL@xxxxxxxx>
>To: <irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <cgknight63@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: RE: Skywave noise
>Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:35:22 -0400
>
>Chris;
>
>Not sure about ham induced TVI on the DTV's but TV DX'ing is not going
>to die that easy, just because of the Transition.
>
>In fact, DTV TV DX'ing is happening now. There are some low band DTV
>stations and these ARE DX-able via Es. Several were reported this
year.
>Girard Westerberg was the first (IIRC) to log a DTV via Es back in
2005,
>I think. Since many DTV's are UHF, tropo is big with those. Jeff
>Kadet, in WC Illinois had the Texas Panhandle DTV's in a few weeks ago,
>600+ miles. He also had analog UHF translators, which are uneffected
by
>the mandate to go to digital. Also after the transition, open
chanbnels
>2-6 may allow interesting loggings of Central and South American TV
>stations and those in the Carribean.
>
>FM IBOC is also being DX'ed. I caught an HD signal on 96.7 from Austin
>TX, via Es, in June. That reception was over a semi-local. The HD
>radios offer great analog FM sections as well as the digital. I bought
>an Accurian HD radio @ Goodwill for $6 and I can hear stations on 97.7
>against a strong analog on 97.9. Thanks DSP!
>
>Digital on AM BCB? It's there - IBOC and the noise is everywhere.
>Nighttime IBOC is an absolute waste and as Craig Healy pointed out it
>will not work in some applications.
>
>73,
>Dave in Indy
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:10:44 -0600
>From: "CHRIS KNIGHT" <cgknight63@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [IRCA] Skywave noise
>To: irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <BLU125-F14859A4EFD719B9F462D0ED3720@xxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>This brings to mind some questions: When TV stations switch from analog
>to
>digital in Feb 2009, will that mean ham radio will no longer QRM TV
>stations? Since the modulation/video mode will be digital will this
mean
>the
>end of DXing TV on tropo, E-skip modes, etc.? Will digital ever be
>implemented for AM BCB? If so, what impact will it have on DXing? 73s.
>
>Chris Knight
>Fort Lupton, Colorado
>
>
> >From: Mike McKenna <way2twohot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Reply-To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of
> >America<irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of
> >America<irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Subject: Re: [IRCA] Skywave noise
> >Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:40:36 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >I agree with Kieth. I support the idea that TV channels 5 and 6
should
>be
> >transfered over to the FM radio service. I would also suggest that
TV
> >channels 2, 3 and 4 be allocated to the FM band --if possible.
>