Re: [IRCA] IRCA Digest, Vol 23, Issue 20

["Jim" <jn97rk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hello!

If you will remember, I ordered the Sangean ATS-818 ACS from Amazon.  Well, 
I got it over the weekend.

To make a long story short, it is back in the box and ready for return to 
Amazon.

Why?  If I were less knowledgeable about what a receiver ought to be able to 
do, I might keep it.  LW was very poor.  MW was only slightly  better.  SW 
was mediocre.  FM seemed to work pretty  good.   Like a couple of you have 
already told me, the radio has poor sensitivity.

I'm going to get another portable, but not sure which.  Ideas are 
appreciated.  I think the high end Sangean is supposed to be ok.  Also, I 
think someone said high-end Sonys are good.  What I thought might be great 
about the Sangean was the built-in cassette recorder.  Should have known 
better...any piece of gear that tries to do EVERYTHING usually does most of 
them equally poorly - LOL.

I'm still waiting to hear where the MYSTERY station is located...the one in 
the photograph posted a few days ago.

73,
Jim Nall
http://www.n4fxc.com



----- Original Message ----- 
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To: <irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:08 PM
Subject: IRCA Digest, Vol 23, Issue 20


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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: A Perfect Example (James Niven, Moody - Texas)
>   2. Re: IBOC acronym (JohnCallarman@xxxxxxx)
>   3. Re: A Perfect Example (Scott Fybush)
>   4. (no subject) (Ira Elbert New, III)
>   5. Radio (Part Two-Hundred and Eighty-Six) (Ira Elbert New, III)
>   6. Re: 1080 unID (Tim Hall)
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:49:05 -0800 (PST)
> From: "James Niven, Moody - Texas" <niven43@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] A Perfect Example
> To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
> <irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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> Hi Michael,
>
>  IBOC = Interference Buries Other Competition
>
>  James
>
>
> Michael Hawkins <downsized99@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>  IBOC = Interference Blasts Out Competition
>
> Fred Schroyer <freditor@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:      Thanks to all who 
> encouraged me to complain to KDKA re WBZ's IBOC QRM. I emailed KDKA's eng. 
> dept. Be interesting to see if I get a response...if I do, will post...
>
>  I think we should have a competition for the best "real meaning" of the 
> acronym IBOC. How about "I Bash Other Channels" or "I Broadcast Onerous 
> Crap"?
>  Fred Schroyer
> Freelance Science Writer / Editorial Consultant
> 955 Sixth Street - Waynesburg, PA 15370
> (40 air mis S of Pittsburgh - 20 air mis N of Morgantown, WV)
> Home 724-627-8844 - Work 304-599-7830 x 1120
> freditor@xxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
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> James Niven
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:51:50 -0600
> From: <JohnCallarman@xxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] IBOC acronym
> To: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America"
> <irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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> Fred Shroyer writes:
>
> I think we should have a competition for the best "real meaning" of the 
> acronym IBOC. How about "I Bash Other Channels" or "I Broadcast Onerous 
> Crap"?
>
> An appropriate acronym for DX Lists:
> "It Brings On Controversy"
>
> Qal R. Mann, Krumudgeon
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:52:50 -0500
> From: Scott Fybush <scott@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] A Perfect Example
> To: Neil Kazaross <neilkaz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Mailing list for the
> International Radio Club of America <irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID: <440B6BC2.7000609@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Neil Kazaross wrote:
>
>> 73 KAZ wanting you to truly understand how bad nighttime IBOC will be. 
>> The
>> only ones of us who will be able to still get much decent DX during
>> widespread nightime IBOC will be living in corner of the US and needing
>> phasing and cardiod patterned antennas. ie..NEw England will still be OK 
>> for
>> TA with a cardiod to take out most domestic QRM and will still be OK for
>> LA's in deep AU's.
>
> This strikes me as perhaps an overly pessimistic view of the matter.
>
> First, I don't foresee a scenario where every AM station goes IBOC. Here
> in my medium-sized market, out of nine in-market signals, three are IBOC
> now (Crawford's 990 and CC's 1180 and 1280), one more has plans to go
> IBOC (Entercom's 950), one has vague thoughts of doing it (public radio
> 1370), and the remaining four simply won't - they don't have the money,
> they're not corporate-owned, and they don't see much of anything to gain
> from making the flip.
>
> That proportion will probably go a little higher in major markets, but
> will certainly be even lower in smaller markets. So out of 5,000 or so
> AM stations in the U.S., my guess is that we'll never see more than
> perhaps 2,000 adopting IBOC.
>
> It's theoretically possible, if someone had the software (I don't) and
> the time (ditto), to come up with a pretty accurate list of what those
> 2,000 stations are likely to be, based on market size and group
> ownership, and from that to generate some pretty accurate studies of
> what the actual levels of interference generated will be.
>
> But we don't need to go to that level of detail to get a pretty good
> idea, because IBOC interference will largely track the existing BCB
> noise levels that we as DXers know all too well.
>
> On the (ex-)clear channels, the effect will be fairly ugly, I expect,
> not only because the digital power levels will be fairly high but
> because they'll be single-source interference generators on each
> channel. AM engineers know that it's not just the level of interference
> on a given frequency that can cause problems, it's the number of sources
> generating that interference. For instance, the overall incoming signal
> level here might be the same on 1020 from WBZ's analog sideband as it is
> on 1400 from the forest of graveyarders, but the noise from that one
> source is going to be far more annoying to listen to than the overall
> murmur from all the graveyarders going at once. Same deal, to an extent,
> with IBOC - it will most surely be a mess when WSB, WJR, WABC and WBBM
> are all stepping on each other across the entire eastern seaboard every
> night.
>
> On the other hand, BECAUSE these are single sources of interference,
> they're nullable. If KAZ can phase WGN's main carrier down enough to
> hear KDWN 15 miles away from the transmitter, he'll just as surely be
> able to phase the sideband hash down to hear KIRO or KBSU.
>
> (The clears will probably be the best test of the difference between
> casual listening and DX listening, and indeed will probably be the only
> place most casual listeners will hear the effects of IBOC. The guy
> listening to WLS to pass the time on a long midwestern drive won't have
> the know-how or the equipment to null the incoming interference from
> WCBS. The DXer trying to hear Algeria on 891 will have both, and
> especially from coastal sites should have no real impediment at all.)
>
> I would bet that the overall effect of IBOC on the clear channels will
> be substantially LESS than the effect of the breakdown of those channels
> that began in the forties and continued into the eighties. There was
> lots of doom and gloom about THAT, too - and it ended up providing
> opportunities for DXers, in the end. (How many of us have KXNT as our
> sole NV log?)
>
> On the regional channels, the effect will largely depend on which
> stations take the plunge and which ones don't. On adjacents to channels
> where few stations have gone IBOC, DX should still be fairly possible -
> the few stations that go IBOC will essentially be single-source
> generators that can be phased or nulled just as we now phase out
> interfering analog signals.
>
> It's on adjacents to channels where many stations adopt IBOC (at the low
> end of the dial, for instance) - and, worse, on adjacents to the
> graveyard channels *if* a fair number of graveyarders adopt IBOC - DXers
> will probably feel the most pain. If even a third of the stations on
> 1230 and 1240 go IBOC, for instance (and that's no doubt a VERY high
> estimate), the result on the adjacent channels will be similar to what
> happened ON the graveyard channels as night powers were raised from 100
> to 250 to 1000 watts - the noise floor will keep going up, and it'll be
> a cloud of noise coming from many directions that's impossible to null.
>
> There are excellent engineering arguments for barring night use of IBOC
> by class IV stations completely, because of the effects it will have on
> the adjacent channels (1220, 1250, 1330, 1350, 1390, 1410, 1440, 1460,
> 1480, 1500), but the FCC operates on politics and not engineering these
> days, so that's irrelevant.
>
> But I digress - while night IBOC will be a very real challenge to DXers,
> and while it will certainly present huge obstacles to some forms of
> DXing we now enjoy, it's not going to be the end of the world IF it's
> approved (still far from a certainty). There are still too many stations
> that won't adopt it, and too many channels where international treaties
> will keep it a non-factor at night. (730 and 740, for instance, should
> be very productive frequencies in most areas, since the only real
> sources of night IBOC interference to them will come from single sources
> on 720 and 750 that can be nulled easily.)
>
> If we have any hope of hearing digital audio via skywave, it'll also
> mean some changes in our antenna systems. Just as broadcasters are
> learning that they need antenna systems that can tune up flat across 30
> kHz of spectrum, I suspect we'll find that some of our antenna tuners no
> longer do the job. Even on my semi-local WLGZ 990, the Recepter's much
> happier with its own cheapo loop than with the peaky tuning on my McKay
> Dymek DA5.
>
> I'm not saying I *welcome* the challenge, or anything, but I'm curious
> to see how it all works out, and since I can't really do anything to
> stop it, I may as well see what the ride is like.
>
> I'm already having fun seeing what I can do with the Recepter, which is
> a truly lousy radio for DX purposes. I'm learning that the low-bitrate
> data stream that rides ON the main channel, not in the sidebands, seems
> to get out quite well. Down the road, if better radios arrive soon, that
> could do for us on the AM side what RDS has done for FM DXers. Some of
> those guys are now logging stations entirely on the basis of RDS hits.
> No reason we can't do that, too, as the technology evolves.
>
> If anything, I'd like a few MORE stations doing IBOC right now, just to
> give me some targets to shoot for. So far, I've gotten the HD indicator
> to light on WBZ, WCKY, WTWP and WGY, and have recovered callsign data
> from WBZ, but no audio yet. What I really need is a good signal to my
> west - a WJR, say - that will keep IBOC on just long enough after my
> sunset to give me some idea of what might be possible where digital DX
> is concerned. At 1746 EST, a few minutes before local sunset, WJR's
> strong enough and stable enough here that I should be able to recover
> IBOC audio, if it were running IBOC. Beats hiding my head in the sand
> and hoping this will all go away, anyway...
>
> s
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 18:12:27 -0500
> From: "Ira Elbert New, III" <ien3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [IRCA] (no subject)
> To: Amdx@xxxxxxxxxx, ABDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
> radiobroadcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, ircamember@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
> am@xxxxxxxxxxx, baconti@xxxxxxx, irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
> lfreshwater@xxxxxxx, dxhub@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, elkien@xxxxxxxxx,
> inew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, ien3@xxxxxxxxx, am@xxxxxxxxx,
> dougsmith@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, dxlogs@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID: <BAY101-F262C30D18A55EDEF297C269EE80@xxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> IEN-GA Ira Elbert New, III, Watkinsville - DRAKE R8B 135' N/S Wire
>
> 1420 WKWN GA Trenton - 03/04 1906 - Ad for a convenience store near
> Chattanooga, TN, ID and then silence. Good signal. "Newstalk Radio KWN".
> (IEN-GA)
>
> Bert New
> Watkinsville, Georgia
> Proudly Serving You Since 1964!
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 18:15:06 -0500
> From: "Ira Elbert New, III" <ien3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [IRCA] Radio (Part Two-Hundred and Eighty-Six)
> To: Amdx@xxxxxxxxxx, ABDX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
> radiobroadcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, ircamember@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
> am@xxxxxxxxxxx, baconti@xxxxxxx, irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
> lfreshwater@xxxxxxx, dxhub@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, elkien@xxxxxxxxx,
> inew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, ien3@xxxxxxxxx, am@xxxxxxxxx,
> dougsmith@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, dxlogs@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID: <BAY101-F12EAD00F55476DFA20427C9EE80@xxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> IEN-GA Ira Elbert New, III, Watkinsville - DRAKE R8B 135' N/S Wire
>
> 1420 WKWN GA Trenton - 03/04 1906 - Ad for a convenience store near
> Chattanooga, TN, ID and then silence. Good signal. "Newstalk Radio KWN".
> (IEN-GA)
>
> Bert New
> Watkinsville, Georgia
> Proudly Serving You Since 1964!
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:08:07 -0800
> From: "Tim Hall" <timhall1@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] 1080 unID
> To: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America"
> <irca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID:
> <6043f3710603051608y211e4856i3e58c664d923bcf1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I drove through Price, UT in 2003.  The station played a mix of
> oldies, NOS, and not-particularly-twangy classic country, kind of a
> "something for everybody" format.  They seemed to stay on all night,
> or at least well into the night (I was staying in Teasdale, UT at
> night).  Tons of "KASL" jingles to match their "Castle Country"
> slogan.
>
> In addition to the well-known KOAL and KSLL, there is another station
> in Price.  It's on 1610 kHz and broadcasts "from a janitor''s closet"
> at the College of Eastern Utah, playing typical college fare.
>
> 73, Tim Hall
> Chula Vista, CA
>
> On 3/5/06, Bruce Winkelman <bdwink@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Thanks for the info, Neil. Must have been KYMN....they were heard/logged
>> here 5/9/2004 at 2300CDT. I don't have my log notes at hand but I seem
>> to remember they were on "late"
>>
>> Bruce Winkelman AA5CO
>> Tulsa, OK
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
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> End of IRCA Digest, Vol 23, Issue 20
> ************************************ 

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